Is the second time the charm for Google's foldable? In this episode, Devindra chats with Senior Writer Sam Rutherford about his hands-on impressions of the new Pixel 9 Pro Fold. It has bigger screens and a sleeker design than its predecessor, but how does it compare to the other foldables out there? And why isn't it called the Pixel Fold 2?!

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Topics

• Thoughts on Google’s Pixel 9 Pro Fold and the rest of Google’s event – 1:39

• Eric Schmidt blames work from home and work-life balance for Google’s loss of AI advantage – 31:07

• U.S. Department of Justice considering breaking up Google after monopoly ruling – 33:32

• Hackers may have leaked every American’s Social Security Number – 38:04

• Meta officially shuts down CrowdTangle, a critical tool for monitoring misinformation on Facebook – 40:50

• Apple is opening up its NFC to third-party developers – 43:12

• Working on – 47:13

• Pop Culture Picks – 49:07

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Credits 

Hosts: Devindra Hardawar and Sam Rutherford
Producer: Ben Ellman
Music: Dale North and Terrence O'Brien

Transcript

Devindra: What's up, Internet, and welcome back to the Engadget Podcast. I'm Senior Editor Devindra Hardawar. This week I'm joined by scene writer Sam Rutherford. Hey, Sam. Hey, how you doing? Doing okay. And we got you here to talk more about, the Google devices, but specifically the new Pixel 9 Pro Fold, a name that I hate.

I know you hate it, too. We'll talk about why. That's kind of messy. And also, some of your, you know, further thoughts from the Google event, Sam. Cherlynn and I did do, a post event. Chat that went for an hour that there's a live stream. There's an episode on the podcast feed about that too. So if you want to hear broader thoughts about the pixel nine event, the made by Google event, go check it out there.

How do you think it went overall, Sam?

Sam: I think Google is not already really great about protecting its leaks. and you know, they even got to the point where you know, Hey, we're just going to tease the new stuff, you know, months ahead of time, because. Hey, if we release it, then it's not a leak.

A lot of people may be getting a little tired of this at this point, but obviously the big focus again was on AI. So we got, you know, some new AI features, some new AI camera features and some other stuff. And on one hand, like I can see the fatigue setting in, but on the other hand, it's you know, Hey, Google is you know, the more, every, every time they have one of these events and they add new AI features, they're really kind of filling out that like suite of AI powered software features tools.

And it's okay. And it's after a while, it's wow, there's just so many things. And obviously it can be difficult because. Yeah. There's a lot of things for the consumer or, you know, new buyers to like sort through, but at the same time, there's just, there's a lot of different, you know, versatility there to talk about.

Devindra: It's a, it was a pretty big event. we'll talk about what worked and what didn't. I will say upfront folks, be sure to subscribe to us on iTunes or your podcast of choice. Leave us a review on iTunes, drop us an email at podcast@engadget.com. I want to hear your feedback and join us Thursdays, typically around 1045 AM Eastern on our YouTube channel where we do the live stream.

sometimes we'll have devices, but we'll always do Q and A with people. So if you want to chat directly with us and if you've got questions about the latest news, that's a good thing to join in for. It was kind of a wild event, Sam, but I think one thing that was interesting is that it was actually a live event, right?

It was not just a pre recorded video like Apple does. Samsung is still doing live events now too, but Samsung doesn't typically do like onstage demos of new software. And that's something Google tried to do and it didn't work out all the time. There, there's good and bad to that, right? Like the, the first demo we saw, which was something of a, you know, capturing information, comparing it to your calendar.

Basically, somebody took a photo of something at was asking the, you know, Gemini, am I free for this? Can you add this to my calendar? It failed three times. It took 60 seconds. What did you think about just that demo? Because it seemed like a big failure of the whole idea of AI assistance.

Sam: There's the pros and cons. Obviously, you know, anytime it's like the curse of live demos, right. That, that, that struck Google again, this kind of always happens anytime someone gets bold enough to try to do a live demo, but at the same time, after that initial flub, they did a lot more live demos throughout the live stream.

And they all ran pretty smooth except for one issue with the reimagined feature, which kind of, you know, uses prompts to replace backgrounds or foregrounds and subjects, you know, they had one example of look kind of wonky, but you know, because they had multiple choices, multiple results for that feature.

They were just able to swipe to the next one. And it's Oh, Hey, that looks pretty good. and so I think, you know, once again, you're seeing the fallibility of AI. Just a, sometimes it doesn't work. Sometimes it times out. I mean, it's also hard to know. That's you know, was that, you know, a pre production software thing?

Was that just a simple bug? Was it a connection issue? So it's hard to tell. but at the same time, I think once they kind of, you know, got on board with everything, it did show you that Hey, a lot of these things are happening on device and they're pretty fast. It just sucks that I guess for them that it was kind of marred by the initial flub of, you know, You know, the live bug demo.

Devindra: Yeah, there was like a multiple attempt flub to and it took a while and it was a little awkward. So that's not the best way to kick off a live event, right? It's

Sam: just, you know, it's hard to deal with when you're just sitting there waiting for something to happen. Then it kind of comes out.

Devindra: It's a nightmare.

I felt, I felt embarrassed for that person, but also listen, it would have been also pretty easy if you just looked at your calendar and used your brain to match the information on that picture. yeah, they're trying to sell us ways that AI could make our lives easier. And it still seems like in some ways, just doing, looking at your calendar, doing something manually could be easier and faster.

So I guess we'll, we'll see where all this goes. I really want to talk about the Pixel 9 Pro Fold, Sam. So you did the hands on, go check out the Sam's coverage of that and the video of that, I really got stuck, held up just with the name of this thing because we were all expecting a pixel fold to or something like that.

Clean, simple, a sequel to the pixel fold. I think it's not a great name for a device like this. It may not matter in the long run, but what do you think, Sam?

Sam: No, I completely agree. It's not a great name, but at least from Google's perspective, here's the rationale. The rationale is that. They just announced a whole bunch of pixel nine phones.

We got the pixel nine, the pixel nine pro, which is a new size. It's the smaller version of the pro, but you still get that, you know, optical zoom camera. And then you have the pixel nine pro XL, which is the big flagship that we've had before, but just kind of get us tweaked XL name on that. And so they really wanted the pixel nine pro fold for people to know that it's part of the rest of the pixel family.

So it still has the same tensor G4 chip. All the same AI features, you know, very similar display specs, similar design language. And so really that's the whole from their rationale. They want people to know that the pro fold is part of the pixel 9 family and that's why you can't get that convoluted name.

Devindra: I totally get it. But it also seems like Google brain stuff to you and we're seeing responses in the chat. hey, just get over the name. Yeah, ultimately probably doesn't matter, but we're asking you to think a little deeper here. And it does seem endemic of the way Google handles consumer products in general.

It's not a clean name. I don't think it really matters if people know if it's part of the Pixel 9 family or not, because it is a foldable. It's the newest foldable. A lot of people would assume it'll have the latest Hardaware, calling it Pixel. And then you can't just call it the Pixel 9 fold.

Because it's more than the pixel line. It's pro. So then you're just adding all these things. It feels like big engineer brain mistake to be like, we got to make sure it all fits into the product family rather than the way human may. Yeah, it's one of those things where I think someone

Sam: could have just been at Google be like, Hey, let's just keep it simple and land on something a little cleaner.

But I think this is actually maybe an overcorrection from last year. Because if you remember last year, the pixel fold came out before the pixelate family. Right. And it had a worse chip, you know, had the tensor G2. and so I think that's, I think it's really kind of an overcorrection on that kind of unforced error from the previous year.

and so I guess that's where we're at. you know, for me, I'm just going to call it the pro folds. Maybe hopefully we get You know, a pro fold 10, and then maybe they kind of rearranged that, next year we'll see, but yeah, that's, that's kind of where we're at the whole

Devindra: thing. So what is new this year?

you had a really great write up, Sam, where it basically looks like this thing is a lot more polished. The screens are bigger and it seems like they solved a lot of the problems from the original pixel fold, right?

Sam: Yeah. I mean, I, I kind of love the shape of the original pixel fold just because it's, it's so unique.

It has that you know, almost passport shaped. Dimensions. But for the pro fold, Google actually did something really clever is like their whole goal with the original pixel fold was to make the outside screen more usable. And they did that by making it a little bit wider, a little bit shorter, a little, kind of a little bit squattier.

But this year, what they did is basically took an outside screen. That's almost exactly the same size as the standard pixel nine. And it looks like

Devindra: exactly the same screen, which would be easier to build

Sam: too. I think in the video, I hold it up and you can see it's almost exactly the same size. And so if you're talking about an outside screen, that's usable.

Well, there you go. You can't like, no, one's ever going to say that the pixel nine screen is not usable and that's exactly pretty much what you're getting on the pro fold. And then, that also sidesteps another issue, small issue, that you had on the original pixelfold, is that because when you open it up, The flexible main screen was a, in landscape mode, there were some sites and some apps that just, they kind of freak out because they don't understand a phone.

That's default landscape mode because everything else is portrait mode. And so you would sometimes have to rotate the phone into portrait mode and then you'd get a landscape view. And it was just a weird experience. It didn't happen very often, but when it did, you're like, well, that's just unusual. And so you'd have to get over that.

So by having that main display now in the pro fold in portrait mode, by default, it's pretty much like all the other foldables on the net. So it's from a developer's perspective, it's a lot easier for, you know, compatibility thing.

Devindra: Developers hate awkward or different screen sizes, right? They do

Sam: not updating their apps just for a single device.

Devindra: So, yeah, so it's like more in line. Now, what is interesting about the pixel nine pro fold is that, Yeah, that outside screen, you could just live on that all the time. And then occasionally pop it open and do the big screen. Whereas I think the argument for a lot of foldables before was you've got basic information on the front screen, but you really want to always be open most of the time.

I feel like Google has struck an interesting balance here. Yeah, it's sort of a subtle design shift where

Sam: they're kind of acknowledging that. I think people, it's more of a 50 50 scenario where like you're using the outside screen 50 percent of the time and using that main screen 50 percent of the time or some somewhere in that ballpark.

And so both the screen sizes and aspect ratios of both displays are super important. Some other small design changes is that Google is claiming that it's the thinnest foldable on the market at about 5. 1 millimeters. That's not actually true. because both the Xiaomi Mix Fold 4 and the Honor Magic V3.

Are slightly thinner, like less than a millimeter thinner. So you're, you're really hedging. I think, you know, that they mean us market,

Devindra: right? Yeah. In the

Sam: U S market, that claim still holds true. And then the main display is now also eight inches from corner to corner, which is up from about 7. 6 ish. so it's bigger than the Z fold six, and bigger than, you know, the one plus open and stuff like that.

Although I think there is a. Maybe one Chinese foldable or two that is slightly bigger. So once again, they're kind of just talking about us, availability in terms of like biggest screen, thinnest foldable, and whatnot.

Devindra: And eight inch internal screen is pretty massive. that's just, yeah, you are fully a tablet at that point.

I think, how is the screen crease? Cause that is the thing that always gets me about a full I mean, it's still there.

Sam: No, no company has completely gotten rid of it. there, there's some arguments on the laptop side where, you know, Maybe they have done it, but it's to me, especially like I'm, I'm, you know, I'm a little biased because I've been using foldables for so long.

It's like the whole matrix thing. I do not even see the crease there. It's does not exist to me. so I guess that's where it's at. If you are the kind of person, it's, it's one of those things where like you have to try it and then you realize. Oh, the crease does not actually matter at all, but you know, from an outspite perspective, if that thing bugs you, it's going to still bug you now because it is visible.

Technically.

Devindra: I've got to actually, when it comes to like video watching, I'm, I imagine if I'm full screening a video on that, it's good. It's going right to the middle of the screen, like with the screen, with the crease in between, but I guess you could conceivably. Yeah. Have the video running at the top of the screen and have stuff at the bottom and maybe avoid you honestly

Sam: only really notice it when you're viewing it from a really acute angle, anything close to like head on where like you're holding the phone in front of your face like you normally would, you won't really see it and it's even less noticeable in like darker environments like inside You know, if you're outside doors, you know, you're going to use that, but you're probably using the exterior screen when you're outdoors, walking around anyways.

Devindra: Yeah. I imagine it's more I think about how I use devices with kids now. Right. And having something like that, like juggling a, a thicker device, like I will, if I'm running around with the kids outside, I could never open that phone and use it as a tablet, but I want it to be durable.

I want it to feel like a typical phone. How is the design otherwise? Cause I feel like the pixel nine design this year for Google is a little Is a big step up. Like the camera bar is less ugly. It's less prominent. It's almost like a pill. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of stuff on

Sam: that are, are so divided because it's some people really love the camera bar and they kind of got rid of that now, now it's just like a It's a pill shaped module and, you know, I kind of likened it to the, you know, now it really looks like an among us character, but Hey, there's, you know, that's whatever.

but you know, Google is saying that it's twice as durable as before. you're getting Gorilla Glass Victus 2 front and back. you know, and you can argue, almost argue that they're kind of borrowing a little bit of Apple's styling because it has, you know, kind of flat boxy sides. less, you know, it doesn't have the tapered rounded edges like we've gotten on the, you know, Past, Pixel Pro versions at least.

and so I think I personally, I kind of like it. but beauty is in the eye of the beholder as always.

Devindra: I think there's some objective things you can point to be like, well, this is a little more polished than before. Even if you, even if you love the camera bar, I pixel nine because I ended up writing up that news.

It does seem like the sleekest pixel ever made. Google has finally figured out some material issues and some like design elements to. Make something that looks a lot more modern than the old pixel six design, which we've kind of been iterating on for the past several years, just with the camera bar and everything.

Sam: Yeah. And I think, I think this is a good evolution of right, of the pixel six design, which they have been kind of iterating on for three generations. And now we're kind of getting something new. So. I think this is a nice kind of bridge in between those two kind of the directions.

Devindra: Yeah. And you play with a lot of foldables, Sam.

You use a lot of foldables or don't you mean, the latest galaxy fold?

Sam: or I, I just wrote, a kind of one year durability on the pixel fold. So if, you know, go check out the site for that. How does

Devindra: this compare? you know, what, is it that much better? Does it feel better? Does it look better? Cause that screen looks great too.

Yeah. And one of

Sam: those things, like I said, I originally, I was like, really, I really liked the shape of the pixel fold, but the new, design of the pro fold is definitely growing on me. The one thing that I'm still trying to figure out, nail down, confirm for sure is that it doesn't look like they changed the sensors, the camera sensors on, from the pixel fold to the pro fold.

and I, I just really wish they did that because even though you know, when I recently reviewed the Z fold six, the pixel fold is already a better camera offers better image quality than Samsung's foldable. But I really don't, you know, I don't want Google to do the thing where like. They're kind of, passing the buck between generations on the foldable because it's like, Oh, we don't want to update the sensors.

We did it last year. And then you're waiting two years, between, you know, sensor upgrade.

Devindra: Has Google confirmed that? Cause I know you guys reached out to them.

Sam: About we're still, you know, we're still waiting on review devices and confirmation on that. So, you know, by the time a review is out, we'll know for sure.

Devindra: It's one of those things. I feel like Google has been really cagey about this release in general, right? these devices aren't shipping with Android 15. That feels like a pretty big, big thing, right? I guess they're just coming too early for the release of Android 15. And this, this event is basically two months earlier than when they typically do it.

We typically get pixel stuff in October, right? So it feels like they want to preempt Apple, but how do you feel about running older Android at this point?

Sam: I think that might also be a kind of like correction from previous last year and the year before we, there was kind of some like software bugginess that, you know, popped up around, you know, at the rollout of previous Android versions, especially on the pixel.

And then you know, we saw in like last year on November, December and into the new year, like they had to release some extra patches to kind of shore up the bugs. And so if this means that we're going to get less buggy releases of Android, especially when they come to the pixel. I'm kind of okay with it.

And especially for this year where there weren't any like groundbreaking overhauls to Android itself. I'm, you know, I'm not, I'm not too upset.

Devindra: I feel like they're also more interested in the upgrades coming through Gemini and a lot of that will be on Android 14 and eventually in Android 15, but you don't need Android 15 to get a lot of the AI stuff they're hyping up.

So it's almost like a weird separation between the AI software and the base software and the base software will matter less and less, I guess.

Sam: Yeah, and I think all the mobile OS's are so mature at this point that you're, you're looking for better stability and, you know, can you get new feature drops, you know, Google's been really good about doing regular feature drops.

And so I think that isn't going to change. And so that I think it, they're kind of striking, maybe a better balance. And in some ways, this puts more of the focus on the Hardaware and the new features on the phones. And so if you're really interested in that, that's great. And then, Hey, you get kind of like a second present later when Android 15 arrives.

Devindra: Yeah, definitely. we saw the news about, AT& T is not going to be carrying the pixel nine pro fold. Is that, do you feel like that's surprising or does this, I think it just kind of makes sense for like a big carrier where many people won't be buying a super a 1799 foldable.

Sam: Yeah. I think when we're talking about foldables, I think it makes sense because AT& T doesn't release, you know, sales numbers, per device, but I can't imagine they were selling through that many and when you, you know, talking about, you know, a company that has thousands of retail locations and suddenly they have to train their, you know, their salespeople and their technicians on, you know, how to educate the customer about these phones.

And they have to get, you know, by display units to put in a certain number of stores. I think it kind of makes sense that like for a foldable, most foldable people, at least me in the past, you know, if I'm going to buy a foldable, I'm going to buy directly from the manufacturer. And so I think a lot of foldable people are like that.

And so it's not really a huge loss. And then, you know, AT& T might actually be saving money by not carrying the fold. That one thing is that this also sort of suggests that, you know, overall market share of foldables isn't super hot and that's a little disappointing, but like you said, that kind of goes back to the pricing issue where.

You know, the pro fold cost the same as the last one, 1, 800. It is a hundred dollars less than the Z fold six. I'm not sure how much that is going to matter ultimately. Cause they're both really expensive. Yeah. Yeah. but we'll, we'll see. I, I'm actually, you know, a little bit more positive on how, you know, the pixel, nine pro fold stacks up against the Z fold six.

even though the Z fold does have a few features like style support and Dex mode that aren't really available on, you know, Google's version.

Devindra: You know, I've, I've spent a lot of money on smartphones. Like I ended up getting the 15 pro max with a decent amount of storage, but I still like close to 2, 000 for foldable is like a killer thing.

And, you know, when Apple does it too, it's not going to be, they're going to look at the competition may even be more expensive than everybody else. we've talked about the Z flip and how the sort of like. Portrait style foldables that flip down like the razor as well. Those are getting more inexpensive.

You know, those are under a thousand dollars now and seem like approachable, like a typical smartphone. Do you think that style of foldable is just catching on better because of the price?

Sam: I definitely think there's a way more runway just simply because like you said, the price, and I think it also taps into a slightly different kind of maybe less techie audience because both Samsung and Motorola are, You know, kind of making more stylish, fashionable plays with both of those phones.

Motorola even has a thing where you can hold the phone up to like your, your shirt or your pants or whatever, and it will take a picture. And then I'll make the background of your phone match the pattern on your clothes, which is just like completely unnecessary. But Hey, if you're really into styling out and going full matchy matchy, that's kind of cool.

And he's in, especially on Motorola's case, you can get. The lower tier, a new razor for, I think, 800 wild. And then you get a thousand for the razor plus, and then the Z flip six is that I think 1100. so yeah, those are a lot more affordable, but like you said, I really wish that we would get a kind of a similar price reduction on the big foldables because 1, 800, it's just out of reach for a lot of people.

And I think I've been noticing more people like out in the world using foldables. And so I think there's is an untapped market, but not until they get the prices down

Devindra: at probably at least under 1500 because Apple basically helped push smartphone prices beyond 1, 000 with the their max phones. I think we were all like, Oh man, are we getting to that point?

Because for a while it felt like we were at a really good spot where 500 phones could be pretty good and do everything you want them. Apple just had to push the price up. And one plus was

Sam: kind of scratching that itch with the open last year where it was 1, 800, but you could trade in any phone. Like even broken ones and bring the price down to 1, 500.

And so that is it's not the true retail price, but at least it's a little bit more affordable, approachable, because at this point, you know, most people are not most people, a lot of people might have, you know, an old like buster sitting in a drawer somewhere that they can get rid of and then. Hey, that's a free 300 discount.

What's the magic price you think for the bigger foldables? if getting under 1, 500, I feel like like 1, 500 retail price. And then if you have incentives on that, and maybe the incentives aren't quite as steep as what's available because there are some, a fair amount of pre order bonuses that Samsung and Google are doing for their foldables, but you got to get like the base retail price, at least down to 1, 500 before.

There's going to be any sort of like major traction.

Devindra: Do you ever think this is going to be like a major category for smartphones or will it always just be the elites, the super, like the people who have more money to spend because functionally it gets you a tablet and a phone, which is nice, but that premium is rough, especially when you could get a typical smartphone plus a separate tablet that has separate battery, you know, like you have to worry less about your main device losing charge throughout the day.

For a lot of people, I feel like that's still the better option and probably will be for a very long time. Do you, I don't know, you've been using this, could you live without a big foldable at this point, Sam?

Sam: I would have a hard time switching away permanently because I'm sort of on the opposite end.

I like the fact that a foldable combines a smartphone and a tablet into one device, which means there's one less device that I need to worry about keeping charged up, keeping updated, whatever. and then but in terms of like overall, like future market share, I kind of equate this to like how you have convertible cars, right?

Convertible cars are never going to be the mainstream car. You know, you're always going to have your hard tops and your, you know, regular coupes with, you know, glass roofs or whatever for a certain section of the market that really loves convertibles. I think it's just kind of the same situation for smartphone people, where there's going to be a certain section who really love that flexibility or offer a car

Devindra: is something more, more than the mainstream, I

Sam: guess.

And maybe if it's only five or 10 percent of the market, I think that's okay. but we're gonna, yeah, we're still kind of in that kind of finding out period.

Devindra: Yeah, definitely. everyone's asking, I see in the chat, people are being like, well, at least Google has, you know, foldable where's Apple in all this.

Do you think Apple even cares about the idea of a foldable smartphone or. To me, the rumors of the foldable iPad mini, because the iPad mini is this really interesting device right now where it's expensive, but still pretty powerful, as powerful as the iPad air basically, and not a huge price difference.

So I almost wonder if Apple's well, if we push that, forget about the mini. What if we had a thing that costs the same as the iPad air, but it folded in half to be smaller when you need it to, I feel like functionally that's what Apple would lean on rather than the smartphone itself. But what's your thinking?

Sam: Yeah. I mean, there's been rumors about Apple has been working on, you know, at least been testing it in the background of what a foldable iPhone would look like, and I think, you know, there's maybe a chance we see that probably not next year, maybe 2026. but you know, Apple with most things is really so hesitant that they want to make sure that it's like.

Quote unquote, perfect. Nothing's ever perfect, but it's, you know, it has that Apple polish on it before it gets released to the world.

Devindra: It's not perfect, but better than everybody else, which is what I think, like even the vision pro, like for all of its fault, it is a better headset than so many others. Like they have solved a lot of like functional issues.

So no, I don't know anything special. I see people in the chat saying, I don't know anything special about Apple's plans. But I do look at the iPad mini. I'm like, that is a really interesting device. And I just can't justify the cost. And also I think I would want a bigger screen most of the time, but what if that mini could be folded in half?

What if that mini had GPS, you know, had cellular access to what if you just didn't call it a phone, but maybe some people would buy it and actually end up using it as a big phone, I don't know. I could see that being a thing Apple would try to pursue, but then it wouldn't be the same price. I'm sure the mini will still stick around, but that thing would be, how do you get the iPad mini to cost, 1, 500 to turn it into a foldable, I guess.

Yeah, yeah.

Sam: I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Apple goes the other way and they come out with a flip style foldable first, and they don't even do a z fold competitor. just because I think It would kind of fit in with Apple's design chops and they, you know, they would be able to kind of flex on, it was like, Hey, we made this really cool pocket friendly thing that you can just throw around and it's super compact and cute.

And I think Apple hasn't had a cute phone in a while. The, the SE is they've kind of languished. And so I think, you know, going back to the, you know, remember the colorful iPhone five C like people love that thing. And so maybe this could be like a modern kind of replacement to that.

Devindra: I think the latest German rumors with the, is the next SC will probably be more like it will have the home button and everything.

Like it'll be a little more modern. So maybe that'll be a thing, but yeah, now that you bring it up, Sam, I do think an Apple flip style foldable could be good, but we've also seen the rumors of Apple also wants to be like, let's go impossibly thin, like they did with the, the latest iPad pros. If you combine the impossibly thin.

That could also fold like I feel like that's that would be the mind blowing part for a lot of people You

Sam: know like it like we we've seen that you know flip style foldables are getting really thin you know 4. 2 4. 3 millimeters and so Hey, maybe, maybe there's some truth into you know, a combination of those, those rumors, but who knows?

Devindra: Yeah, cool. Well, anything else you want to mention about the Galaxy Pro The Galaxy, not the Galaxy, the Pixel 9 Pro Fold. Anything else you want to mention about this or Google's event, Sam?

Sam: Yeah, I think the kind of the last kind of follow up is that Like you said before, Google moved its, you know, annual fall lunch up to August, but if we look at the actual rollouts of the various devices, we can see that, it almost is like they weren't fully committed to that because, you know, to kind of explain that why we don't have devices in hand yet is that.

the Pixel 9 family, Pixel 9, Pixel 9 Pro, Pixel 9 Pro XL. Those are officially on sale on August 22nd. So coming up pretty soon. However, the Pixel 9 Pro Fold isn't going to be available until September 4th. Then the Pixel Watch 3, which is now available in two sizes. Finally, thank goodness. is coming out September 10th and then September 10th is right around when Apple normally has their big, you know, annual iPhone event.

And then all the way in September 26, we get the pixel buds pro two. And so this staggered launch thing is if you're going to have the event this early, you should have all the events ready to go right

Devindra: after the

Sam: event.

Devindra: It's so it's, it feels like it's all it's all FUD against Apple, right?

You have the event early. You then trickle out the devices. So people are, Oh yeah, we're totally thinking about Google and not whatever Apple's cooking next. And that may be a little presumptuous. remember when somebody found a, an early, what was it? An early pixel phone in a bar, like almost replicating the iPhone thing and nobody cared.

Sam: Yeah,

Devindra: I think that was the like testament to like how excited people are for pixel Hardaware in general. So that's just funny. Anything else you want to mention about the other devices? Like we got the pixel watch three, any of the AI features?

Sam: I think one really positive thing for the pixel watch three is that Google is moving more features out of the Fitbit subscription that you need to get like You know, daily readiness scores and, fitness metrics and some of the coaching and like personal, you know, they're really leaning into the running and training aspect, especially kind of like, you know, planning your routes and stuff like that.

And so this is something that like, I'm sure Lynn has definitely been on that bandwagon about You need to provide all the features that Apple and Samsung offer without the Fitbit subscription. And then if you want to have you know, really specialized coaching or stuff like that, that's what the Fitbit subscription is for.

But all the base like health metrics and you know, the new loss of pulse feature, which is You know, can, is a really good emergency service. You got to have that baseline. And then if you want to have subscription, you have to make that subscription really compelling, but without kind of cannibalizing the, you know, standard feature set of the device, but like I said, really happy to see the pixel watch three, get a new 45 millimeter version.

I think I've been in, you know, especially if you want, you know, people, larger people, men primarily, I think to get on board with that design, you just kind of need to offer a bigger version. and then quickly on the pixel buds pro two. I was so happy to see them decrease the size. They're I think about 20 percent smaller and lighter than the previous Pixel Buds Pro versus, you know, if you go back and look at what Samsung did to the Galaxy Buds, three line, they just kind of got rid of like the small compactness and went for more of a, you know, AirPods design with the big stem.

And so I'm really happy to see at least Google kind of double down on the Hey, we want it to be super light, super comfortable and not very obtrusive. So at least we have one of the big earbud manufacturers kind of sticking to that mantra. so I'm very happy to see that.

Devindra: I will say this about the pixel watch three.

It looks really cool. Like it looks very sleek. This does seem like the year where Google is like out there pumping sleek, modern looking Hardaware. I almost, I kind of sort of wish like I had an option of a smartwatch like that for iPhone. I'll probably I have a Apple watch series four, so I'll probably upgrade into whatever they do this year, but around the round design can look good, it looks, it can look good.

And I don't mind sacrificing a bit of screen space for that stuff. So anyway, we will be looking at all these devices soon. Keep an eye out for more coverage on our reviews over the next few weeks. Let's move on to some other news and. You know what? Something similarly related to Google, by the way, is Eric Schmidt, former Google CEO, had a talk at Stanford where he said a lot of things.

I don't think people really wanted to publicize, or at least he didn't want to publicize. There was a chat at Stanford. The video that has been pulled down right now, but all the news reports about it is out there. he basically, he essentially blamed remote work Google's lagging behind on AI compared to other companies.

So. Okay. You're like, yeah, people aren't grinding enough to him. also the really, the really gross thing where he was basically like, AI startups can totally just steal IP. Does matter when you're successful, you can hire lawyers to just clean up that mess. really just saying the quiet part out loud.

I think that a lot of people assume about AI. Give me any thoughts on this, Sam. I'm not going to give him credit for this because

Sam: to blame you, like your lunch getting eaten by chat GPT on work from home.

Devindra: Yeah. It's

Sam: come on now.

Devindra: that was a deliberate choice because Google held it back because they felt it wasn't productized from all the reporting we've seen.

And then we

Sam: had that whole situation where Bard came out and then I was like, Oh, wait, Bard's not quite there yet. And then they kind of pulled back on that. And then Gemini showed up a little bit after and it's do not, you cannot blame this on work from home. This was, if anything, this was people at the top, not prioritizing or not having the correct vision on seeing where AI technology was Was going, which just feels really weird for Google because of, you know, how much time they've invested into the Google assistant and, you know, they've been crowing about AI for longer than pretty much any company out there.

And to blame that on the workers and work from home just seems kind of tone deaf to me.

Devindra: Just absolutely. I've never liked Eric Schmidt as a businessman. Like he was sort of like just the adult in a room for Google for the longest time, when, you know, posts Larry Page and Sergey Brin. But still this is how a lot of the business people think, right?

Like they, they will be the sharks about this, IP, who cares? A little legal issues. We will deal with that when we have billions of dollars. So just funny to see somebody say it out loud. And then immediately his response was he asked Stanford to take down the video and he's saying, he misspoke. He's saying, yeah, he, he did not actually mean the things he's saying.

just hilarious stuff. Don't trust the businessman. Don't trust the rich folks. Similarly related to this too. there are reports that because of, the whole Google monopoly ruling, US judge ruled that Google is officially a search monopoly. there are reports that the US government could force Google to break up.

And we don't know what that means yet, but it could mean, Hey, maybe Chrome. Becomes a separate company. Maybe Android becomes a separate company. This has been done before. the whole AT& T breakup from Ma Bell to all several different subsidiaries.

Sam: And this is similar to what Microsoft was facing as well.

And it didn't ultimately happen, but even the threat of breaking up the company, if you go and read the Past, you know, or go, go look at documentaries on bill Gates. They said that when that ruling came down and they didn't weren't forced to break up, but they had to have regulators come in and read all their emails.

It really, you know, took a lot of the wind out of Microsoft sales at that point in the company's development. And so it's right, you know, to be clear, the GOJ is, they're just mulling this. They have not even proposed this. They have not, you know, put in any legal filings. It's just something they're considering the, the issue.

The core issue to me is that for Google, the big thing is search, right? They kind of have a monopoly on search. But the thing is, is that it's not because there's, you know, they're hurting competition. People just don't want to use Bing. And, you know, there are other competitors like DuckDuckGo and whatnot, but it's you know, it's hard to say that like Google's Android business or Google's Hardaware business is thriving because of search, and so that seems like a very interesting, kind of dilemma.

Every

Devindra: Android device does make money for Google because they all have Google search by default, right? that's. Google, they're all vessels for Google ads, and I

Sam: believe there was a story that recently came out. It is you know, what could Microsoft do for Apple to make them put being as the default search thing?

And Apple was just like, Nope, no, no amount of money would, would like, cause us to do this. So I think that statement right there, it's like, it's not Google. and then it's just breaking up the company is say you break out the Android business and then you, or you break out the Hardaware business.

I know that like Apple doesn't have their own, you know, search alternative, but it seems really weird to me that especially in the U. S. where Apple has a lead in market share on, you know, On iOS, and smartphones in general that you're going to have to force Google to break up when Apple has a lot of the similar issues, just

Devindra: maybe not related to search.

Well, they're not, not like monopoly dominance is the thing. Like that's, that's where it really, where it comes down to. We're definitely gonna be talking to like legal experts about this particular story, especially as like we can, we hear more. The thing about what the US government is saying is that Google search, yes, it is, it may be technically the best search.

It may be the one people go to, but by paying competitors to make Google the default, it also just kills any, it basically kills a tadpole or kills like a competitor before they can even, even break out and be really useful because there's just no chance of anybody really getting market share. So it's sort of like market, Market share manipulation almost.

I think that's what they're really railing against. And the thing about Microsoft is that, you know, way back in the nineties, the Microsoft antitrust stuff was about Internet Explorer being a part of windows and people being forced to choose Internet Explorer. Internet Explorer was not like dominating the browser market back then.

It was still like mostly Netscape for a while. It was just that Internet Explorer was like rising very quickly. And. The thing about Google is you can look and see Oh no, like Google owns search, nobody else wants to use anything, but Google search being search is still a joke, even with chat GPT.

Like there, there are alternatives. You could pay for a slightly better search engine, but Google is just such a dominating force that nobody can really compete. I guess the question is like, what will you do to help? What can you do to help? Yeah. I mean, if you

Sam: want to put in a law to ban Google from paying other companies to use their search.

I'm, I'm okay with that and it's not like even on iPhone, you can choose a different search provider if you want, but no one does, for a good reason. Yeah.

Devindra: So I don't know. It's a, it's a messy situation. It's also going to be the legal arguments going to be like, people love Google. Google is the best search engine.

What's the problem? And I think a lot of that is a little specious because it's yeah, well, yes, you are the best. You're not, you're not fully

Sam: addressing the issue.

Devindra: Exactly.

Sam: Right.

Devindra: Exactly. Also in other news, scary news that hackers may have leaked the social security numbers of every single American.

basically according to bleeping computer, there's a data dump of 2. 7 billion records of personal info for people in the U S that includes names through social security numbers, aliases, and physical addressive, that people are known to have lived at. From what I've seen, like some people have confirmed, like it does have their information.

you, there was no, you can't go to, have I been pwned to be, to look up this database yet? Cause it's not that fully open. some people have said that the social security numbers in the databases are incorrect. In terms of who they're linking to, but still there's a lot of data out there. so I would say, go check out our posts on this whole thing.

There's a lot of, tips on what you could do if you're worried about this data being out there. Check your credit reports. That's a big thing. there are multiple services that can clean up your information. is it delete me? There are a bunch that can clean up your information online. You have to pay for it, but if you're worried and you start to notice weird stuff, It may be worth it and watch your passwords.

Everybody like use the password manager. We've got a guide on that.

Sam: I was going to say this sort of reminds me, like how back in the two thousands, everyone was like, everybody has to have an antivirus software. And so it was kind of an extra tax that you had to just deal with to exist on their internet and make yourself a little bit safer.

And now security breaches have become so commonplace that it feels like you're almost required just as a human to have some sort of You know, service like ID watch guard or delete me or whatever, just constantly monitoring your, you know, credentials or your, you know, credit history and stuff like that, and it really sucks.

and this kind of, you know, tags onto like a bigger issue of, like I said, security breaches are so commonplace. And then now we're getting into the point where there are entire, Hacker protocols where their whole goal is to gather a bunch of leaked data or breaches, and then decrypt it later once quantum computing becomes more available in some, like a lot of the current security practices.

That's a whole other scary

Devindra: thing we have to worry about to like what quantum computing will enable it. Right? And so,

Sam: NIST encryption standard to kind of sidestep this in the future. It's still very early right now, but this is, you know, something that we were going to have to follow, you know, as, as things develop.

Devindra: It's, that's, we, we've talked a bit about quantum computing before, but we, it's we're just getting around to the idea of what an AI system can do and what an NPU does and how that works compared to CPU quantum is just A whole nother level where you can't even, you can't even understand the data that's coming out of it.

It's just, it's just kind of wild. let me see here. Also, Chris Bell at Engadget wrote a really good piece about meta shutting down CrowdTangle. We've reported on this before. That was the research tool that they acquired, I think around 2016, that gave people a lot of data about what was happening on Facebook and all their services.

they killed it. They have offered an alternative service that is not as good. The thing about CrowdTangle is that everybody could have used it. Journalists, academics, researchers, everybody, the data was just out there. There's a new thing that Facebook is doing that, that Meta is doing that people have to apply for.

And from what we've seen, it's just not nearly as good. So check out Chris's report and. Think about this, like when everybody's talking about Mark Zuckerberg's glow up, Oh man, like his hair is kind of, he's trendier. He seems chiller. He's wearing cool necklaces. He's more like a bro rather than a nerd trying to mimic a Roman Emperor, almost more like a human, almost more like a human.

And I can't help but think like how much of a distraction, a lot of that stuff is like, what, what life coaching is he getting to be like, don't worry about the global consequences of your actions from your companies. Just be chill, Mark Zuckerberg. because in the

Sam: timing of this This seems a little bit weird because Zuckerberg himself has been talking about, we want to be more transparent and, you know, be, give people more insight into how meta works.

But then you go and shut this down. Granted, there is a replacement, but like you said, it's not quite as good. So it's That have just kept that thing going.

Devindra: There's a lot of criticism that they're also doing this before, like months before an election, when we really need a good service to help people figure out like where, where is the spam data?

Where is the bad stuff? Where are the bad operators? What's trending on your social network? Just to have this gone at this key moment is ridiculous. So, yeah. And the only data we're going to have stuff coming from whatever the new meta program is now, which people have to apply for. Journalists can't apply for that, by the way.

So only researchers at some institutions, not everybody's getting in. Yeah. Little, little weird. They almost don't want journalists to have all the info. all we have to rely on is the info then that meta is releasing on itself. And that is always a recipe for failure. So check out Chris's report. I think it's worth reading and we're thinking about, and maybe don't give Mark Zuckerberg too much credit for having a cooler hairdo and more style and more human interactions now, because I think a lot of it just means he's not as concerned about the problems from his own companies.

final story for us is that Apple is opening up NFC functionality to third party developers and iOS 18. 1. this was a thing that was going to be coming to the EU, but now it's coming to everybody looks and. People can use it to do tap to pay functions, functions that rely on the secure element, Sam, like you, you're the mobile guy.

What do you think about this? are you excited about more NFC stuff happening on iPhones? I'm more of just it's about time

Sam: because for, if you look at it, this is how Apple grew Apple pay by Apple pay uses NFC, but it was the only app that was allowed to use NFC on the iPhone. And so, you know, we were just talking about monopolistic practices.

It's well, that is right there, a very clear sign. And I don't think it's a coincidence that after the EU was forcing Apple to open it up, in, in Europe that now they're kind of opening it up globally to maybe sign kind of sidestep some scrutiny. Now that like they notice, Oh, DOJ is kind of given a hard look at Google.

Let's kind of get out of the spotlight for a second. So Google can step in and take the

Devindra: hit. I could almost see me more of an Apple secure thing because it's like digital payments is tough. You don't want to have any app getting access to the secure element and everything. So now developers can apply to be a part of it.

There may be additional fees to use the secure element, of course, because it's Apple, but also we took so long to get tap to pay stuff. Like other countries have had pre, I think even pre smartphones, like Japan has had like tap to pay elements for a while. or at least tap NFC sort of like tapping functionality.

It's going to be like a bigger security risk for Apple to do this. But yeah, it's, it's a good thing. I, I love tapping NFC stuff. Like I feel like I'm in the future when I can just tap my phone on something and just pay for groceries. Yeah.

Sam: Yeah. We finally got tapped to pay at the, like in the subway in New York city.

And so it's Oh, Hey, this is kind of nice. That said, you know, I just want to point out some of the sort of similarities is that the security risk is the same kind of argument that Apple used for not opening up the app store to third party, programs. And so it's it is always, there's always you know, a core thing that like Apple can point back to.

It's Oh, we're making ourselves more vulnerable, but at the same time, like it's also kind of a monopolistic practice. And so, you know, how do you, I guess the trick is, you know, how do you In terms of yeah,

Devindra: it kind of goes back to what Schmidt was talking to Eric Schmidt, basically do the thing that may be bad until, you know, somebody yells at you for, and then you deal with the repercussions.

I cannot blame Apple for being like, listen, we built this thing for our products. And this is what we're going to start with. you look at the Android. App store and like what, the Google store is a, is a disaster, like a mess of like really messy software. Not like always polished apps and a lot of malware just floating around the app store.

So it is like a balance that we definitely have to think about. I'm glad people are. Yelling at Apple about this stuff to, also kind of semi related to this. Apple is finally allowing Spotify to display pricing in the EU. Spotify is not going to be direct linking to its website. You still have to go

Sam: to the website on a different device just to, you know, sign up for your subscription.

Devindra: But now at least, at least Spotify can show their pricing in the EU within their app without making Apple mad. So that's, to me, this is the more, this is just petty. You know, this whole thing is so petty. And in terms of Apple also making people pay, if you click through an app link to buy something on a website, Apple will still take a cut because Apple saying Hey, we, we enabled that, you know, our, our platform.

No, I don't know about that. So these are the things I'm more annoyed that Apple does. And when it just seems petty, when it's not really about security, it's just about you, like almost punishing developers for going outside of your ecosystem, I think that's a big problem. But yeah, we'll be following all these stories, folks.

So keep an eye out.

Let's move on to what we're working on. On my end, I've, I'm still like in the process of testing a few new co pilot PCs, and things with AI chip. So there are a bunch of movie reviews up, and it, you know, I reviewed Borderlands, I reviewed the movie I'm going to be talking about soon and also industry season three.

So check out all that coverage on the site. Sam, what are you working on? Borderlands still makes me sad.

Sam: obviously a lot of Google stuff coming, coming up shortly. we're also starting to prep for IFA, which is, you know, the big European consumer tech show. and then recently, I just published a review for the, ACES ROG ally X, which is their kind of big refresh to their handheld gaming PC.

It's really good. It's, you know, you'll go, go read the review, but it's kind of what I wanted the original ally to be from the start. And so I think just real quickly, if you are looking for a handheld gaming PC. Your two choices are the ally X or the steam deck OLED. And so those are the kind of the two different front runners.

there are some rumors out Lenovo might have an answer to that, but not immediately, maybe closer to CES. I would also

Devindra: never hold your breath for Lenovo Hardaware. How about that? Just as a rule. Don't get too excited. See, let's see how that turns out. Anything else, Sam?

Sam: no, I mean, I'm, I should probably say that, I'm gonna be out starting for a few months.

just because, I have a new addition to the family. Yay, congrats! So, I, I'm planning to be on paternity leave for a few months, Obviously depends when the baby actually arrives.

Devindra: Yeah. Yeah. Congrats, Sam. two babies, two kids is, is this is, this is a second one. You, yeah, one is tough. One was tough for us, but two is just okay, you feel like you've got it, but then like new things arise.

So good luck. Enter the chaos zone. Enter the chaos zone. Everybody sends Sam your well wishes and everything. Let's move on to some, some pop culture picks for the week. Sam, what do you want to shout out? There's a new TFT

Sam: set, team fight tactics. This is the game that I've been playing a long time. I play the double up the two person mode with my wife.

We actually recently hit Emerald, which is like the highest we've done in terms of you know, duo gameplay. And then there's all, Riot is also releasing a new experimental PVE mode for TFT, which is like, Seems really weird because the whole, idea of the game is to beat the other people that are in your lobby.

so they, you know, right. It's very, been very clear about this. It's there's this kind of a test. It's very experimental. I'm kind of excited for it and it comes out in a couple of weeks. So if you're into auto battlers, maybe check that out. And then, the last season of Umbrella Academy is finally out.

And so I think it's kind of, kind of, I like it. I've enjoyed it when I watched it. And so I want to, you know, I want to see that series through. So I'll probably be checking that out real soon.

Devindra: Awesome. Yeah. I, I did a like last quick catch up with the boys to watch this season. And I feel like I am so many seasons behind on Umbrella Academy, but I really liked the first season.

So, yeah, good luck with that, Sam. Some things from my end, something good and something terrible. Alien Romulus, I think is fantastic. I have a review up on the site. this is a Fede Alvarez film set between Alien 1 and Aliens. And it has the like cool retro tech and style of the original films. it feels like very much an old school alien movie.

I've seen criticisms that it's trading too much on nostalgia bait and like it's doing things we've seen before. And that's also true, but I think it's also really well made. I like Fede Alvarez as a, as a director, like he has a good eye. He can construct set pieces really well. And this is basically a setup for like maybe films that feel more traditionally alien, not something like Prometheus or Alien Covenant, which were just like weird philosophical discourses by, by Ridley Scott.

Basically, these are just like proper tight. This one is a proper tight, like alien horror film. Kaylee Spaney, who's been in a bunch of movies this year, is fantastic. David Johnson, who I love, who is in industry, he's also great in this. So I think it's fantastic. See it on the biggest screen you can.

I freaking loved it. And the movie I did not love is Borderlands, which I also reviewed on Engadget and is one of the worst movies I've seen this past decade. It's just really bad. It's just a complete disaster. And I kind of felt that from the trailer. maybe catch it at home if you want to hate watch something, but good God.

I don't think Eli Roth can make good movies. I think that's where I come down. Don't spend a lot of money going to see this, whatever. Don't spend any money. Like maybe buy a ticket for a better movie and sneak into Borderlands. If you really want to see Borderlands, maybe that, maybe that's the thing.

I'm so sad because I think the look

Sam: of the movie was like,

Devindra: It seems like it

Sam: was interesting, but then everything else kind of, they dropped the ball. I mean,

Devindra: it's not even because Borderlands, the look of Borderlands, the games is like cool cel shaded stuff and the idea was always sort of like Mad Max y vibes.

the movie's trying to be both Mad Max and something else. Something else similar to Mad Max. What's in metal? Twisted Metal, maybe. Oh no, Mad Max meets Guardians of the Galaxy. That is kind of what the movie is going for with the ragtag group of anti heroes and whatnot. It's not good. Badly written. One of the screenwriters took their name off of it because they didn't want to be fully embarrassed by this thing, so.

Yeah, it's a complete disaster, and I hate it. I

Sam: should also mention, I'm getting very worried about the upcoming Transformers 1 animated movie. I've heard good

Devindra: things

Sam: about that. I hope you're right, because it looks like It looks silly. It looks like This looks like the Transformers people are trying to make a Marvel movie and that including the casting.

And I'm not very excited about that as a longtime Transformers fan, but it's also like reserve judgment. Yeah,

Devindra: it is also a prequel set on, their robot planet, but also where Optimus and Megatron were friends.

Sam: I mean, so that actually, yeah, that was a thing going back to the original, not necessarily friends, but they have a long history.

I'm aware of a long history, but not like bros, you know? Yeah, it's like almost touching on like the whole buddy cop thing and then like they, you know, start betraying each other and stuff. Like you guys got to do better.

Devindra: I've heard good things. That movie also has a good director. So yeah, hope to be checking it out.

Sam, if you're, I don't know if you're around, maybe you can help us review that one. Okay. Cause it sounds like you're into transformers. Anyway, that's what we've been watching. That's the episode for this week, folks. As always, our theme music is by game composer, Dale North. Our outro music is by our former managing editor, Terrence O'Brien.

Podcast is produced by Ben Elman. You can find me online and at Devindra on Twitter, BlueSky, Mastodon, all the fun places. Where can we find you, Sam? Find me at Sam Rutherford, on X and then as always on Engadget. com. Awesome. Email us at podcasts at Engadget. com. Leave us a review on iTunes and subscribe on anything that gets podcasts.

And be sure to check out the other episodes we dropped this week. we had, the post Google event chat with me and Sherlynn, and I also talked with some AMD executives about their thoughts on AIPC. So don't miss that. Thanks folks. We're out.

This article originally appeared on Engadget at https://www.engadget.com/mobile/smartphones/engadget-podcast-pixel-9-pro-fold-hands-on-thoughts-113024736.html?src=rss